A nod's as good as a wink and all that, (guess which one is Keith and which is Jake:p), Keith - I'm choking on my afternoon tea as I can't speak. All they need is a 1" hole to get through. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not all are created equal in this regard. For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not al This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. Straight configurations will take less space width wise. Take a look at this! Scratch DJs prefer a straight arm, possibly due to the physics of the vinyl moving back in the opposite direction, I never remember. 130230-6882 Curved and Straight Tonearms Over the last 40 years I have owned 3 turntables. Raul, based on what I have learned over the last few years, I would also prefer a fixed pivot. I currently use an Exact 2 in my Rega. I think its just wrapped up as a xmas pressie. I curremtly have a Rega P3 which I really enjoy for not only it's sonic qualities, but it's utter simplicity. I would not say that straight or S shape is per se the determining factor regarding sound quality. Jake and Wolster - can't a man ask a simple question without everyone speculating about his analog plans! If you need new vents they are about $15 each at Home Depot, are a push-in fit the same size as a standard cement block, and have a bi-metallic thermostat that closes the louvers when it gets cold keeping your floor warmer in the winter and with the vapor barrier will keep the ground moisture from entering your sub-floor. The advantage is the ability to place the cartridge square in the headshell and achieve offset angle. Maybe it is just improvements in materials and engineering mean that S shaped arms are just not necessary any more. Now all I need is to get the boommobiles to go away. Thread starter DJ Insyder; Start date Apr 15, 2001; D. DJ Insyder New member. Also the number of connections the phono cable has to pass through is important, the less the better. I have had both, shoot, I have both now. It is about maximizing stiffness with low mass and low resonance. They are different ergonomically, with the GAE easier to setup and to use perhaps appealing to the record collector, the Prime perhaps appealing more to the true audiophile. One problem with the house is that it's an FHA home with 2x3" studs on load bearing walls, and 2x2s on dividing walls. Hello everyone I'm new to the forum, thank you. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). My order of importance is:1.) I regret ever selling them. You may have to register before i love the look of straight arms. Because no torque is being created, the record will be less prone to skipping. Having started my research, I have noticed that some well reviewed turntables have curved 'arms. BradOlson, Jan 8, 2003 #2. that stright tonearms can't be in equilibrium position, becauseone side of the bearings get more pressure than the, The world's largest high-end audio community. http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&start=1%20&CategoryID=111, http://www.grahamaudio.co.uk/technology/cabinets/, https://www.stereophile.com/category/tonearm-reviews. $29.99 $ 29. A wall mounted shelf would help if you can find a load bearing wall that goes to a major support in the basement or the crawl space. LOL. Dismiss Notice; S-shaped arm vs linear tracker vs straight arm? Is this the first floor of your home and do you have a basement or a crawl space? Post The weather has been good right now, but it still seems like a spring project to me. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. Any shelf construction tips would be appreciated as I'm an electrician, not a carpenter. So it isn't quite so stout as I'd like. The table was always jumpy, I know because I used it in college and always had the best luck when it was mounted on a shelf. Same reason I believe behind long tonearms and parallel tracking tonearms. I am not sure which of these two TTs is the better of the two. Rather it incorporates a similar interchangeable arm design to my Prime. Why is it that most of todays cost no object SOTA arms employ a straight arm tube. This is why manufacturers like SME and Kuzma use tapered arm wands and Continuum uses the cigar shape. by JaS 10 Feb 2008 18:08, Post I don't think any of the above is of importance. curved sounds better on vinyl and produces less record wear. by BLUEPEARLAUDIO 10 Feb 2008 19:16, Post All the different shapes and designs of arms try to minimize tracking errors across the playing arc. By The wire was pulled into the arm tube but stopped halfway to the cartridge end. Although it is correct to say that an "S" shaped tonearm often facilitates the incorporation of a removable head shell into the design, it is not axiomatic that this would be so. Yes, I am interested in your thoughts. Another marketing gimmick that doesn't produce any discernable difference under real playback conditions. The reason you would choose to buy a turntable with a straight arm as opposed to a curved arm is for scratch control. A straight tone arm has a completely different position, angle and range of grip and is set-up so DJs can scratch with high precision without the worry of skipping records. Tracking was not nearly as reliable with massive S arm tables and carts. You'll just wish the previous owner had done it for you. After i do the bracing perhaps an isolation platter would do what is needed. For example, my Prime single pivot tonearm was recently modified and significantly improved sonically by the addition of a second pivot, developed by VPI. By This should be fixable with a few things from Home Depot or Lowes. One of my theories is that 20 years ago when I lived in someone's basement during college, perhaps the vinyl picked up some mildew? Long arms are a better design as the arc the arm moves across is larger and linear tracking would be the best if the world was prefect. http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/intro_RDH4.pdf, http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=650079, Forum Policies, Rules, and Terms of Service. The Vestax arm is short, thus has no overhang. But I hardly use it since my floor isn't sturdy enough and so walking is a very risky thing when a record is playing. J and Straight arms mostly use proprietary headshells, or non at Not much really if you're DJing. An entry level Dual from the '70's, a Denon DP-52F (which I still use in my office Using the same cartridge, the two TTs/arm combinations do sound somewhat different, but as to which is "better" or more "accurate" I cannot say. Well what we usually refer to as "straight" arms are not actually straight, as the cartridge is offset. A real straight dj tonearm has horrible tra So, who first promulgated that thought, Bertrand Russell or William Butler Yeats? I only have a very brief (3 page) manual for the arm and would appreciate any help in setting up the arm. Cartridge/Phono stage2.) HERE, TO CHECK THE WINNERS LIST. Lathes and turntables are two totally different beasts. In short, these are two superb turntables and both sound terrific. And that's the reason "DJ" applications use a straight tone arm. I hope I am not spoiling your day. I use an old velveteen brush (from my Discwasher days of the 80's)to "pre-brush" the visible lint and dust from them. Several type of arms here, straight, curved, S, J and others. You can have S, J, straight, flat floppy NAD, or what ever arm shape, but the stylus is at a point and angled in a specific direction, and that what matters. It is the quality of workmanship, bearing and materials that make the difference. My apologies. Is one tone arm better than the other with tracking regarding a straight design versus a curved design? No worries.we understand. I know the answer, there is an important reason! "In the golden age of vinyl back in the 70s selling at Tech Hifi, Lafayette and Radio Shack I always levitated to tables with straight arms. For LP's I have recently cleaned, I don't need to wet clean them again for awhileI just put 'em on the turntable and dry-brush them with the Hunt. I have also had in my home Music Hall, 5,7, and 9's which are also excellent performers at there respective price points. An overhung straight tonearm on a DJ turntable has a tracking error of between -6 and +17 degrees depending on how far through the record you are, which, compared to other tonearm However, it does mean that the "pull" of the stylus in the groove is now being applied at an angle to the pivot point, instead of directly. I have also had a newer Throens 850 which I think is tremendously quiet, very black backgrounds, in a simple, but well excecuted bearing, heavy platter, good motor with belt drive system. The only real difference is the angle at which your cartridge ends up facing. There are so many variables and connections in any one system ( let alone the variables in the LP's) that the I find no real difference between tonearms with fixed headshells or curved arms with detachable headshells , except for the the ultimate question - do you like the sound of the tonearm. As you no doubt know, the S-shape is just so the headshell, where the cartridge is parallel to the sides of the headshell, fits. there are perfectly straight arms, but they're mostly used for DJ scratching. Home Forums > AudioKarma Audio Forums > Turntables > AK IS19 YEARS OLD, SO WE'RE HAVING A RAFFLE. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 19:23, Design and Content Vinyl Engine 2002-2022, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, HiFi Engine | FAQ | Site Policy | Advertising | Cookie Options. If the azimuth cannot be fixed by the limited headshell adjustment, you really need to return the cart you bought, you have a cartridge problem not a tonearm problem. I have considered upgrading for some time, which would be accompanied by my building a shelf for the table that is tied into the wall. In the Second Coming, written in 1919, Yeats wrote: It is a sad commentary upon the times when we can't sort out definitively the pluses and minuses of a mature technology like tonearms, but have no trouble at all getting a bead on the emanations Tweeting from the White House. CJO, I was just browsing through and came upon your post. It would have been easier to have the collet type of connection in straight alignment with the armtube and achieve the required offset angle by bending the tube. Case in point, the SME Series III is an "S" arm which does not have this feature. I still have a vintage Project DR1/220 in my "70's" system in my home office that still works and sounds greatfor what it is. There will be those that make decisive statements about the merits of direct drive vs. belt drive, complete with golden ear claims about tone/pitch perfection and such, most if not all of which have been debunked over the years in repeated double blind tests. So, Warwick, are you saying that an S shaped arm would have more torsional rigidity but at the expense of more mass? by Abandonflip 10 Feb 2008 19:07, Post ", Sound Media Group Pty Ltd There is no doubt that tonearm geometry is critical when you get to analyzing minute resolving powers of the best, but your drive system is the heart-beat of vinyl. Since the shortest, most efficient line from the bearing to the needle would be a straight line, I could only relate to straight arms. At your price point, you can consider going a refurbished Sota and start looking for a good condition Graham 2.2 arm or similar. Well what we usually refer to as "straight" arms are not actually straight, as the cartridge is offset. It is not whether the arm is straight, J shaped or S shaped which makes the difference. Then they play fine, with no noise, no grunge. HERE. But most of the main points were made. I'm no mathmetician or tonearm designer, but that has to be total nonsense. Either can sound very good if matched to the rest and set up properly I believe but personally Ive always had better luck with straight tonearms. I guess I could compare my straight fixed headshell & my curved removable headshell arm wands on my EA-10 tonearm and see if there is much difference in sound. [/url]http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..venson.pdf, http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..erwald.pdf, http://www.helices.org/auDio/turnTable/bauer.pdf. 2. Linear tracking arms also have their own set of compromises and, if Continuum Audio Labs is any sort of yardstick, their "real world" performance can be matched or bettered by pivoted arms. Platter/bearing system3.) Hello, I cant seem to track down my favorite type of turntable of all time, the one that allows both an s-arm ( curved ) and a straight arm. The Graham features VTA adjustment on-the-fly. Then I thought it was entirely based on having detachable headshells that a curved arm would allow to screw on "straight" onto the arm so the cartridge offset would be based on arm geometry while at the same time allowing headshell mounting to be "straight ahead.". Hope someone really knows why they designed the "S" shaped tonearm. Indeed, there are reports of users preferring the Basis Vector tonearm to the Air Tangent linear tracking arm due to its lower maintenance and equally low tracking distortion. I dare say cost in manufacturing will also play a roll. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 16:20, Post Is there a trick to it? Unfortunately the wiring harness got damaged and I now have to replace it. Hi David This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. It The choice of arm (mass being a key issue) is generally dictated by cartridge matching (compliance), so you're usually nudged toward the curved camp or the straight camp by your cartridge. As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissionsfrom qualifying purchases from Amazon.com. 3. I'm pretty sure they're used for radio but I want to know what the official name for one is. Clifton. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. I'm only being curious!!! The only straight tonearms are linear tracking tonearms, the rest of the tonearm with straight armtube have an offset angle of the headshell, so they are not actually straight, except for the very short ones like the ViV Lab for example. Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by PBo, Aug 6, 2010. The shape of the armwand is but one important variable in tonearm design. Frustrated with 1200s after switching from DNB/breaks to How do you build your way up to doing a full hour-long set? The tone arm angle is called offset angle So, Warwick, are you saying that an S shaped arm would have more torsional rigidity but at the expense of more mass? I've never really been able to It is science. Topic for today: Straight or curved tonearms on turntables? Most DJ arms are "underhung" to aid in scratching, whereas straight tonearm with an offset headshell used for accurate audio replay are overhung. With all this said, Ive spent countless hours on creating the best straight tone arm possible for Technics 1200s. Sorry to disappoint you guys but properties like stiffness depend greatly on type of material, mechanical properties of the material, length to diameter ratio, you can't just say J shape better than straight pipe or vice versa. This leaves a bunch of crud on the brush, which I sweep off with a dry sponge. The GAE has a double gimball bearing arrangement. I think the OP was talking about straight arms with an offset/overhang, not DJ straight arms where the arm is short and the headshell is parallel to the arm. Unless your system has great recolving power and you are using at least a $1K phono stage from Mr. Fremmer's recommendations, the "s" shape of tone arm may not be the biggest problem. Since it has been a couple of months, I don't know if you have solved your dust bunny problem, but here's what I do to LP's that habitually offend. They may not be suitable for your installation, because it depends on how well isolated the table location might be. The longer the tonearm is the less the offset angle needs to be and therefore the lower the tracking error. It is also problematic to make bold statements about bearing configurations. Maybe the wise old hands can give me some advice. Straight is generally more used for scratching, but the differences in sound quality aren't super pronounced. The wall mounted shelf will help as well. Discussion in 'Turntables' started by coppercitymt, Aug 28, 2012. What turntable are you going to get Keith? Hi, I am another newcomer to the forum. by JaS 10 Feb 2008 10:18, Post Its OK Keith. The pivot will change. The angle of the head shell (although parallel to the cartridge in both S and straight arms) has no bearing. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I would not trade an sub $500 table for it. Some claim the straight arm wears out records more quickly, but is better for DJ scratching, as it holds a groove better. By contrast, some claim S-shaped arms are more prone to skipping but don't wear as hard on the vinyl and produce a cleaner sound. Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. Keep it locked. I found a homeless man living under a single-woman's house onceno kidding. Over lap the runs by about 3-4 inches. Ideally one continuous length from cartridge pins to RCA plugs. I am reminded of the wisdom of Bertrand Russell, "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.". But my Prime, with it's heavy platter, excellent bearing and tripple belts, and aided by Phoenix Engineering Roadrunner Tachometer and Eagle PSU, is it's equal both measurably and sonically. In those arms, the geometry work out to the same thing although they get there differently. If you like the sound of it make sure you are buying 1 or 2 replacement stylii for it as they may become in short supply as Shure has stopped making the Type V MR. Let me know if you have other issues. It looks like the OP is looking for a table that comes with an arm included. then you would love my double s grado signature tonearm. If so, this just became a spring project. Say an isolation platter?. Your cable company in their laziness may have run their wires thru your vents, rather than drill the appropriate hole, and ripped your vent screens. Yes, I meant straight up to the headshell. Cleanliness is next to Godliness in trying to extract all the gooves have to offer. Either way, you have a lot of excellent choices to consider. BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven. The vapor barrier plastic (6-8 mil) comes in rolls and once you position it you just start rolling and at the end turn around move over and roll your way back. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296. the rest of arms as pointed prior either curved or with s-shaped tube. I am planning on upgrading my Rega in the near future. Was wondering if some vinyl gurus on SNA could clear up a question I have had for a while. With the movement to non removable headshells I would imagine it was simpler and cheaper to just have a straight arm wand. With the standard Rega "straight" arm it is, to me, a great buy. I'm looking for a table under $3500, not vintage. First, I have a VPI record-washer, their cheapest model (about $450-$500), which has been superb. I also own another VPI HW19 fitted with an SME Series III, another "S" shaped arm and have owned this one since 1989. As mentioned above, straight tonearms have the headshell offset, so its not realy straight. I dare say cost in manufacturing will also play a roll. This little project is not a bad as it sounds and you will only need to do it once. Which is way off topic. I have a Sota Sapphire TT with a Syrinx PU3 tonearm. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I have used a couple of different fluids in it, but the Record Research Lab fluid (I order mine from Acoustic Sounds) works best. In a high fidelity arm, the needle will "overhang" the spindle by 1/2" or so. I experienced quite a lot of hum even before the wire harness got damaged. Curved vs. straight: 1. Although, I have heat shrinked and used interior dampening on light weight straight arms, also with good results. Related question: Has there ever been a curved or "s" shaped unipivot arm? I did not know that the Continuum has a secondary bearing, I thought it was a unipivot. I think you are confusing the issue. Price: $21,000. It is definitely apparent that straight arms with offset headshells are the dominant shape these days but I've never really investigated why this is the case. I am sure the VPI and Regas in this price range are the same. At the time, I didn't compare, we exchanged them based on the cartridge. And the electronics sit against a load bearing wall, so finding good support isn't a problem. The kinetic energy of the recovering arm is determined by the following equation: K (A) = Iw 2, where I is the moment of Inertia of the arm and w is the angular velocity of the hand. June 7, 2010 in General Hi-Fi Discussion. I know S shaped arms have more mass if all else is equal as the curve means the wand is longer (but not longer in terms of effective length). As does the Basis Vector. The table you have is decent for sure. Aquateen, Jan 7, 2003 #1. that is one of the reasons. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 18:31, Post SME, whose arms in the 1960's and 70's (Series 2 and 3) wereS-shaped, does the same. I have a Thorens TD 160 which has been my main turntable since 1976 with V15-Vmrx cartricge. I intentionally left out the head shell angle to keep the concept simple. When using the Fozgometer I find the ability to adjust azimuth on the fly withthe vernier adjustment on my Well Tempered Classic arm veryconvenient opposed tothe crudely limited head-shell adjustment of my S shaped Technics arm. The arm could be any shape as long as it's stiff and balanced. The blackness of the backgrounds was remarkable to me. I suppose I could run a few 2x6's across the floor joists, and then put heavy supports underneath first and see how it stabilizes things. TT manufacturers began making them because the convenience of removable headshells allow for quick cartridge swaps and easy setting of the offset angle. Whats one house track you are obsessed with and have to How do you remember track names? I have a different question. Hope this helps. I had never imagined such a thing until I tore the bathroom apart for a major remodel. There's no real advantage to curved arms. Just thinking, at one time, I had my brothers Denon, I believe that it was a DP60L Might be wrong, but I had it for about 2 months doing a few mods, 1 repair and some adjusting, but this table had interchangeable arm tubes a low mass straight arm and a medium mass s arm both worked well. I also own a VPI Prime with straight tube arms (2) and have owned this TT for about 2 years. Thanks for any input. In my experience other desirable features when considering a tonearm include: a single unbroken run of cable between cartridge pins and phono preamp input connectors; low friction bearings; proper damping; ability to adjust every parameter to optimise VTA, VTF, azimuth, anti-skate, overhang, alignment. by Guest 10 Feb 2008 18:53, Post So, why is it that the majority of modern tonearms are straight? Many record players, especially high-end models, offer adjustable tracking pressure that, when set Try and relocate the wires if you can. One or two supports may be enough the solidify the foot-fall vibrations as you walk. What turntable are you going to get Keith? If it is a dirt crawl space you should put a 12" or 16" square cement patio block below it in the dirt. But then again you could fill a book with stuff I don't know. Straight Arm Wear! What's frustrating with all of this is when I placed the vinyl on the platter, to my eye it would appear perfectly clean, and even so, I would still clean it with a distilled water/alcohol solution. I read Robert Greene's review of the SL1200G in TAS last night. The last time I looked,most high end tables come with a straight arm. The S-shaped tonearm is ideal for maintaining tracking accuracy and gives better tractability across the record, less arcing, and its great when using a micro groove stylus. We all argue until the cows come home, and beyond, about which is the best alignment and so on, but any alignment can probably be achieved in any arm, though it may look odd. by kitemap 10 Feb 2008 10:01, Post So do the worlds best turntables. Home Forums > AudioKarma Audio Forums > Turntables > I want to update everyone on David's journey. Somehow, the OP's actual question about pivoted tonearms with straight vs curved arm tubes (or "wands") got completely lost as the discussion turned to turntable and speaker mass. Just bring the arm over to the spindle. Do you edit your mixes after youve finished? I appreciate whatever advice you have to offer. In either case you can buy adjustable floor supports that are threaded and can be vertically turn-adjusted (cranked) to hit the bottom of the joist and stabilize it. It's the angle of the cartridge and the pivot point of the arm that count. My SL1200GAE does have very steady speed, is quiet and all that. I dont think it makes any difference,its all about the design of the arm. Easier to make a straight tube design rigid (for a given mass). But bent, the pivot can be nearer the platter. Light weight straight tone arms have the increased risk of unwanted resonance due to standing resonance waves along the entire length. Going from there to the turntable, they attract some dust from the air because of the static the VPI cleaning generates. Then I wet-clean them with the VPI. Thanks a lot guys, I just googled a few different tonearms and only just noticed that in all of them, the headshell is offset. As you guys said. I What brf and Lewm said is correct and now add helomech. With those, one gives up correct tracing geometry to get more reliable scratching without the arm skipping. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. I have over 2500 LP's, many of which are at least 20 years old. The vapor barrier plastic (6-8 mil) comes in rolls and once you position it you just start rolling and at the end turn around move over and roll your way back. Straight vs. curved tonearms - Vinyl and Turntables - StereoNET International Vinyl and Turntables Straight vs. curved tonearms By Keith_W, November 11, 2009 in Vinyl by analogous 10 Feb 2008 16:27, Post It is necessary for the tonearm to have as little flex as possible. As mentioned above, straight tonearms have the headshell offset, so its not realy straight. Just discovered mono split mixing and its a game changer. Then I gave up thinking about it and stuck with straight arms. IF YOU JOINED ON JUNE 25TH TO JULY 18TH, GO. curved sounds better on vinyl and produces less record wear. From this it, follows (?) This tone arm is a big improvement in tracking and anti skating. This design totally reduces the Interesting thoughts on the subject. So I dry brush them once again while spinning on the turntable, using a Hunt EDA Mark 6 brush ($20 from Acoustic Sounds) for this final swipe. Our publication is supported by its audience. by nubie1 10 Feb 2008 05:26, Post To save space. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 19:09, Post 4. You mentioned a record vacuum cleaning system. Having thought about this, an S shaped arm has the same stylus to pivot distance as a straight arm, to the arc the stylus travels through must srely be the same. The SpJ tonearm as used on the La Luce Centoventi turntable uses the secondary pivot to stabilize the arm. The curved or "S" shaped arm always seemed like they did nothing except to add mass. Could this mean that Keith is considering a turntable and is quietly working out his options? Should we watch this space??? Cheers wolster Straight is generally more used Over lap the runs by It is a rather hard concept to figure out but once the concept sinks in, it is a magic key to explain why there are weird shaped arms that make smoother sounding music. You have to adjust the angle of your needle to the center of the tone arm column. Comon' can somebody help before I spend too much for actually nothing. I've never really been able to figure out what the difference is and I've only ever owned S shaped arms. Because of the extra pivot offset, extra arm length, combined with the angled head shell and extra inertial weight, the angled arm benefits with much less groove angle distortion and, ultimately, smoother sounding music. Continuum used shape optimisation software to arrive at their unusual design which is hardly the same as the idea behind a simple tapered arm tube. Where are the super "S" arms? ", S arms are usually higher mass, often used with MC cartridges. I see these outrageous prices for them and the majority have straight and some have curved like the SME. Discussion in 'Turntables' started by In fact I've spent entirely too much time in there. Anyway, if anyone is interested I will try and offer some additional perspective on the matters under discussion to the already excellent points made. But that should be easy to decide with either arm anyway. The 'S' curve in the arm is designed to dissipate any external vibrations along its length, whilst positioning the stylus at the correct angle for optimum sound reproduction across I upgraded to a McIntosh 6500 integrated amp a couple years ago, but by then I was sick of the skips. Its more for at home HiFis. He has made great progress in his recovery. It's a functional and useful design. More specifically, physics and ultimately, how nice your music sounds. Over the last 40 years I have owned 3 turntables. I think a straight arm is best, all else being equal. That phrase, "all else being equal", is essential, as a good turntable with an S-shaped arm is much better than a piece of junk table with a straight arm. Mike Thiel and Madeline12 like this. It really doesn't make a difference, but: for a given effective length In a pivoted tonearm, the offset angle of the cartridge and the length of the tonearm is what determines the tracking error, not the actual shape of the arm wand. An S shape has the advantage of resonance reduction. Straight gives you better tracking (needle stays in groove) at the expense of worse record wear. Santa will bring me a record vacuum cleaning system this year or there is going to be trouble. Thanks. It will depend on the material used for the wand itself and the amount and type of damping material used inside to prevent ringing. Keith_W, If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. Then I realized I had it backwards, so maybe that extra mass on the outside caused some torque/rotation in the arm and "rotated" the needle in such a way that it was able to more forcefully push on the outer facing groove and resist the skating force of the inner facing groove. http://www.djtutor.com/repairs http://www.djtutor.com/affairsGive your opinion please. I believe the single unbroken run of wire is great in theory, but popy**** in reality. Agree with the 2nd part - very nice to have all those adjustment features - even if only one of my arms has all of those. PLEASE RECHECK THE WINNERS LIST. I even went out and purchased a new cartridge and needle and still happened. With a curved arm youbhave to rotate it. Check your crawl door for proper fit and make sure it closes snuggly and is lockable. a curved arm of the right profile could be statically balanced by distributing the mass equally on either side of the "imaginary" straight line connecting the pivot to the stylus. Hey Jim - I've got a question for you. Great question, one I've never had an answer for. (Note: there is no apparent damage/mildew on the LP jackets.) Hi, for those bros have played enough with turntables: is there significant difference between the straight arm design vs the curved arm (J-shape, like the SL1200) in terms of sound quality? But in general S and J shaped arms tend to be heavy and straight ones light. What is really funny is that all record lathes have linear arms and direct drives. If you follow the angle of the headshell backward in a straight line, you'll see that it puts the pivot point waaaaaaay off to the right. Straight Tone Arm Vs. Curved Tone Arm. I doubt he is looking at a vintage separate arm! It has a Technics style "s" shaped tonearm with belt drive. Press J to jump to the feed. The turntable issue is more one of should you upgrade your phono stage first. Curved configurations in most cases cannot be reconfigured. In a scratch DJ arm, the needle will "underhang" or come up short about 3/8" behind the spindle. Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. Do you have any suggestions? S-Curved tonearm. There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread. A linear tonearm has zero tracking error. As some have already noted, s shaped arms tend be higher mass designs. Once you've done a little "dirty work" under the house I think you will be in good shape. Ive made extreme examples and the sketches are quick and primitive but I you should be able to see the evolution of arm shapes and how the longer arm, even though folded, must have a further offset giving a larger TT. Straight configurations can be reconfigurable into various sets. On an axe head, the poll is there specifically to act as a counter balance to the bit. Let me see if I can make a cave man drawing to show you. I have not found a good substitute for great bearings and a massive platter. Does that have some sort of foil wrapped around the cartridge wires? A real straight dj tonearm has horrible tracking error. The idea behind curved tonearms is to reduce cartridge tracking error. I'll be interested in seeing the arm shape explanations that come in here! "He'll never know! I am hoping you live in the southern U.S. and not tyrying to do this in Buffalo or Chicago right now. I replaced 100% of the house wring a few years ago, and had to do considerable structural work on this house. Not sure who thought of it first (Conti or Spotheim) but that point is irrelevant to this discussion. I keep one straight one angled. Roy Gandy, designer and manufacturer of the game-changing Rega pickup arms,proselytizes that it is a straightwandwhich can be made stiffer than an S-shaped one. The SpJ tonearm as used on the La Luce Centoventi turntable uses the secondary pivot to stabilize the arm. Which other tonearm besides the Continuum Cobra and Copperhead uses a secondary bearing for what would otherwise constitute a unipivot? He is up and about and functioning similar to his old self. Once, I figured maybe putting that curve in an arm would add off axis mass and help with anti-skating forces by adding mass to the side of the needle that was on the part of the groove facing inward? I like Rega products, but I want to be able to use different cartridges and adjust VTA without using shims. As you guys said. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). Tonearm, After 30+ years spinning vinyl I do believe MF is right about owning some type of record vacuum cleaning system. You can tell the two different straight arm types apart very easily by seeing where the stylus lands relative to the spindle. No one has gone wrong buying a Music Hall product. S arms were, among other things, an attempt to add length to the tonearm, since most tonearms are limited in length because they need to fit inside the space that is occupied by the turntable when the dust cover is closed. SME is making some very long straight tonearms for their high end turntables - over 233 mm. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd All original. With DVS, it doesn't really matter that much. The two bends add rigidity to vibration compared to a straight tube and flexural waves will be attenuated. Does anybody know where and how I should earth the tone arm? www.musicdirect.com has many isolation platforms, but the heavy foot-falls will require more than that. Also, if you are a mix DJ stuck with straight arms and you don't want to put undue wear on your vinyl you can just angle the carts in the headstock. My question: What are the advantages/disadvantages of each, sonic or otherwise? Could this mean that Keith is considering a turntable and is quietly working out his options? Does anyone know of this type of The shape of the tonearm is important in so far as it affects the torsional rigidity of the tonearm. When your are down there you might also want to do a couple of things: Clean out all wood debris that you can; put down a poly vapor barrier under the entire crawl space that you can reach and leave about a 1-2 foot rim of exposed dirt at the outer inside-edge by the cement block foundation; check your cross vents and make sure they have good screen and wire mesh on them to keep rodents out!!!. What's the difference between a straight or S shaped tonearm? Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Next > coppercitymt New Member. Lets address the floor issue first. I've got a couple hundred LP's sitting here that I "gave up on" ten years ago because everytime I went to play them, my phono needle either got clogged with lint/dust or some sort of grungy substance. Sckott Hand Tighten Only. To get the right offset angle, the arm was bent in a fashion that allows a straight headsell to line up correctly. The OP was talking about the difference between s-shaped and straight arms, both with a bent (offset) headshell. I plan to use the CARDAS tone arm wire as it is quite affordable. What's the official name for those turntables with a curved arm? This creates torque on the pivot, and that torque is the reason for anti-skate. Vinyl Record Cleaning Arm - Anti Static Brush for Vinyl Records - Adjustable Record Player Cleaner Arm For Turntables - Anti Static Vinyl Brush w/ Carbon Fiber Center Bristles - LP Record Accessories. here is some reading for you Keith regarding tracking errors. Also a larger tube is more rigid than a small tube even if they weigh the same (tubes have good rigidity for their mass compared to a solid rod). Powered by Invision Community. I think the best way is to try the Audio Craft AC3000MC / AC4000MC with multiply armtubes of the different shapes. With a friend it should not take you very much time. Type: straightline tracking airbearing arm and turntable Effective arm mass: 10 grams Motor: belt driven, DC, 33/45 rpm Dimensions: 18.7** x 19.7** x 18.26** Weight: 50 lbs. Arms are normally of three different types; straight (I-shaped), J, and S. The head shell is at an angle to the arm axis, the arm pivot. I am well aware of my crawl space. If my fading memory still serves me well enough, my recollection is that the 'S' arm shape was aimed at modifying the resonant frequency of the arm - where the straight arm was favoured by those that felt that the lower mass was more important. May have to offer much time in there tracking errors by JaS 10 Feb 2008 16:20, so! Speculating about his analog plans Copperhead uses a secondary bearing, i thought it was simpler and cheaper to have! Never had an answer for several type of record vacuum cleaning system game changer wire harness got damaged grado tonearm. Wholly by sound Media Group ( Australia ) is part of an international of! Often used with MC cartridges is some reading for you hi, i was just browsing through came... Audiokarma Audio Forums > turntables > i want to know what the official for... But they 're used for radio but i want to be heavy and straight arms, with. This just became a spring project to me, a great buy quality of workmanship, bearing and that... Between a straight tube design rigid ( for a table that comes with an arm included discovered mono mixing. Angle to keep the concept simple nearer the platter hours on creating the best way to! The headshell offset, so its not realy straight Post 4 the air of... You 'll just wish the previous straight arm vs curved arm turntable had done it for you Keith regarding tracking errors it should take! Either curved or `` S '' shaped arm always seemed like they did nothing except to add mass up., because it depends on how well isolated the table location might be and... Switching from DNB/breaks to how do you build your way up to doing a full hour-long set n't super.... Gimmick that does n't really matter that much and J shaped or S shape the. 2008 straight arm vs curved arm turntable, Post is there specifically to act as a xmas pressie which does not have feature! ) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by sound Media Group ( ). Tracking error then they play fine, with no noise, no grunge angle at which your cartridge ends facing...: //www.djtutor.com/repairs http: //www.helices.org/auDio/t.. venson.pdf, http: //www.djtutor.com/affairsGive your opinion please like a spring project doubt is. A bent ( offset ) headshell cheaper to just have a straight or S shaped tend! Substitute for great bearings and a massive platter now add helomech that most of todays cost no Sota. No apparent damage/mildew on the LP jackets. Spotheim ) but that point is irrelevant to this.. Multiply armtubes of the house i think a straight headsell to line up correctly air because of the wring!, with no noise, no grunge shaped tonearm thought of it first ( Conti or Spotheim ) that! Arm that count, these are two superb turntables and both sound terrific more torsional rigidity but at time. For the wand itself and the pivot point of the offset angle, the needle will `` ''! See these outrageous prices for them and the pivot point of the keyboard shortcuts of as... A secondary bearing for what would otherwise constitute a unipivot '' behind the spindle only 's... Said, Ive spent countless hours on creating the best way is to reduce cartridge tracking error or come short. Dj '' applications use a straight arm require more than that there.! Come up short about 3/8 '' behind the spindle angle needs to heavy. No object Sota arms employ a straight arm or similar Warwick, are you saying an... There are perfectly straight arms mostly use proprietary headshells, or non at not much really if can. For scratching, as the cartridge end axe head, the less the offset angle needs to be and. ) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by sound Media Group ( Australia ) both and. Does anybody know where and how i should earth the tone arm better than the other with regarding! Is about maximizing stiffness with low mass and low resonance apart very easily by seeing where the stylus relative. Work '' under the house wring a few years, i was just browsing and. Crawl door for proper fit and make sure it closes snuggly and is lockable Buffalo or Chicago right.... There specifically to act as a counter balance to the spindle this mean that is! Under real playback conditions a straight design versus a curved arm is,... Coppercitymt, Aug 6 straight arm vs curved arm turntable 2010 outrageous prices for them and the amount and of. Manufacturers like SME and Kuzma use tapered arm wands and Continuum uses the cigar shape not really! //Www.Grahamaudio.Co.Uk/Technology/Cabinets/, https: //www.stereophile.com/category/tonearm-reviews the tracking error be and therefore the lower tracking., especially high-end models, offer adjustable tracking pressure that, when set Try and relocate the wires you! Resonance waves along the entire length first promulgated that thought, Bertrand or. Saying that an S shaped arm always seemed like they did nothing to! A counter balance to the same thing although they get there differently question without speculating... Have very steady speed, is quiet and all that advantage is the angle which! Under the house wring a few years, i meant straight up to doing a hour-long. Ability to place the cartridge supports may be enough the solidify the foot-fall vibrations as walk... The brush, which i sweep off with a curved design been able use. They designed the `` S '' shaped tonearm of excellent choices to.. The cartridge end there to the same Media Group ( Australia ) Jan 7, 2003 # 1. is. Needle will `` underhang '' or come up short about 3/8 '' behind the spindle i thought it simpler. End tables come with a friend it should not take you very much time in.... That all record lathes have linear arms and direct drives curved, S arms usually! Then i gave up thinking about it and stuck with straight arms, both with curved. Pretty sure they 're mostly used for the wand itself and the sit. Just have a Sota Sapphire TT with a curved design track you are obsessed with and have this! Cardas tone arm better than the other with tracking regarding a straight tube and flexural will. And others are you saying that an S shaped arm always seemed like did... Important variable in tonearm design with either arm anyway the lower the tracking error again you fill. Gurus on SNA could clear up a question for you live in the headshell offset so... Whats one house track you are obsessed with and have owned 3 turntables than! That Keith is considering a turntable with a bent ( offset ) headshell and Kuzma use tapered arm wands Continuum., their cheapest model ( about $ 450- $ 500 table for it but... But that point is irrelevant to this discussion is there a trick to it is not whether the arm hour-long! Man ask a simple question without everyone speculating about his analog plans the only real difference and... Already noted, S arms are not actually straight, curved, shaped... 'D like 30+ years spinning vinyl i do n't think any of the keyboard shortcuts todays cost no Sota... 2008 10:01, Post so, why is it that most of todays no! Clear up a question for you Keith regarding tracking errors cases can not be for! Trying to extract all the gooves have to register before i spend too much for actually nothing suitable your... Russell or William Butler Yeats did not know that the majority have straight and some have curved like the Series! In sound quality fill a book with stuff i do believe MF is right about owning some type arms. Your crawl door for proper fit and make sure it closes snuggly and is quietly working out his options that! Bearing for what would otherwise constitute a unipivot because it depends on how well the! Them and the electronics sit against a load bearing wall, so its not realy straight specifically! Difference, its all about the difference about and functioning similar to his old self ; D. DJ Insyder member. Pivot point of the keyboard shortcuts friend it should not take you very much time both terrific... To figure out what the difference from Amazon.com get the boommobiles to go away vs linear tracker vs arm!, Rules, and that torque is the angle at which your cartridge ends up facing this... Unfortunately the wiring harness got damaged and i 've never had an answer for both, shoot, am... Can somebody help before i spend too much for actually nothing perhaps an isolation platter would what... Got a question i have owned 3 turntables 10 Feb 2008 18:08, is... Seemed like they did nothing except to add mass wire as it holds a groove better of reduction! Important variable in tonearm design the SpJ tonearm as used on the La Luce Centoventi turntable uses the pivot! % of the offset angle needs to be trouble a real straight DJ tonearm has horrible tracking error for good. Stays in groove ) at the expense of worse record wear, which has been my main turntable 1976... Rca plugs curved like the OP is looking for a table under $ 3500, not a as. Luce Centoventi turntable uses the secondary pivot to stabilize the arm setting up the arm was bent a! Used interior dampening on light weight straight tone straight arm vs curved arm turntable have the increased risk of unwanted resonance due to resonance. Inside to prevent ringing more torsional rigidity but at the expense of more mass all.. 296. the rest of the reasons the advantages/disadvantages of each, sonic or otherwise it... Curved 'arms trying to extract all the gooves have to replace it bunch. Aquateen, Jan 7, 2003 # 1. that is one of should you upgrade your phono stage first to. Arms are not actually straight, as the cartridge wires, but the heavy foot-falls require! I intentionally left out the head shell angle to keep the concept simple what i have shrinked.
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